The lawmaker representing Kaduna Central Senatorial
District, Senator Shehu Sani, speaks with LEKE
BAIYEWU about the cabal in the Presidency and President
Muhammadu Buhari’s challenge in implementing the report on the
suspended SGF
W ill you
describe the Minister of Women Affairs, Mrs. Aisha Al-Hassan, as
one of the ‘hyenas and leopards’ in the government for declaring
her support for former Vice President Atiku Abubakar for the 2019
presidential election?
I don’t think she is one of them. What brought her into national
discourse was the statement she inadvertently made to declare her
support for the former Vice President of Nigeria, Alhaji Atiku
Abubakar. The fact remains that it is her opinion, but many people
do not actually agree with her. The fact that she could speak out
shows that she is not a hypocrite. We must tell ourselves the
truth. When the President was sick and was in London (for medical
vacation), there were many things that happened behind him, one of
which was that many politicians that are celebrating him today and
mobilised thousands of people to the streets to welcome him were
actually not interested in his recovery when he was on his sickbed.
If we can vividly recall, the level of support he has is more
audible when he is around than when he was not.
In the Nigerian parlance, there is what we call ‘eye service.’
When the President is absent, you will see scheming; you will see
political machinations; you will see politicians and political
office holders jostling around, organising nocturnal meetings and
forming alliances and restrategising for their own political future
and for the 2019 election. It surprised many of them that he came
back because many of them thought he would not return alive. The
difference between that woman (Al-Hassan) who made the statement as
a minister and the others is that she was open and others are still
having it in their minds. I believe the President knew very well
that many things had happened behind him. If she is prepared to
work for the former vice president in the event that President
Buhari decides to contest (again), she should easily excuse herself
from this government and concentrate on what she believes in for
the 2019 election.
I don’t like the way people are insulting her; I don’t like the
way people are calling her all sorts of names. I think the
President knows very well the kind of person he appointed as
minister. She has her opinion but I may not share her opinion. I
believe that our democracy should get to a point where we should
tolerate opinions other than our own. The measure of our democratic
relevance is not about our cliques; it is about our acceptance and
conformity with democratic dictates and principles.
When a serving minister openly declares her support
for Buhari’s political rival, does that not mean a vote of no
confidence in the President?
I think she is in the best position to answer that, but from the
little knowledge I have about her, she has always been a woman of
respect and integrity. People have the right to express their
opinion but we should understand that a lot has been achieved by
this government in the areas of fighting corruption, economy and
security. We should appreciate that. There are also a number of
failures within the last two years but we are having problems with
people who do not see any good in this administration. We are also
having a problem with people who think that the administration is
100 per cent right, angelic and saintly, hence nobody should
criticise it.
This is a free and democratic society; people must be encouraged
to express their opinions. If we did not have the right to speak up
and challenge the (Goodluck Jonathan-led) government, it would have
been impossible for us to take over political power. Democratic
societies provide the platforms for individuals to use and hold the
government to account. Without the right to freedom of expression
and speech, we are going to have a society where only the wills,
wishes and dictates of the people in power become the rule. If you
have been elected into office, you have voluntarily offered
yourself to be scrutinised through public criticisms, which
democracy itself provides for.
You and the wife of the President, Mrs. Aisha
Buhari, once said when Buhari, as the Lion King, returned from his
medical vacation, he would flush out the hyenas and the leopards in
the kingdom. The President has been around for some time now. When
will he do it?
I am of the belief that there will be cabinet reshuffle and I
believe that some people will be removed from his government; some
people will be replaced and there will be some substitutions. In
the life of a government, there is the need for periodic reviews to
assess the performance of people appointed into various offices.
Those ones who have failed woefully should be dislodged from the
government; those who have performed fairly should be assessed as
to whether they should be taken to different ministries or be
shifted to another agency; those who have performed well should
simply be encouraged and remain where they are. If you don’t do
that, there is likely going to be fatigue and the atmosphere of
governance will be so suffocating.
You will see the technical failures of some appointees and it is
also an opportunity to bring in people with fresh ideas. When a new
government comes into office, what usually happens is that there is
always the burden of responsibility and compensation on the
president (or governor). That means that those who worked hard for
his victory need to be compensated. That is why names of ministers
(nominees) are collected from governors. Those who worked hard
during the campaign are being compensated with ministerial
positions. But if one has done that for a year or two, then one has
been able to appease and please those forces that helped one to get
into office.
Now, one has to settle for governance, which means bringing in
people that will deliver results purely. There are three stages in
the life of a government: the first cabinet is about compensating
people who worked for you. The second is to bring in people who
will deliver on your mission, irrespective of their political and
social allegiances. Most times, the cabinet that comes last is
usually an election cabinet; those who will work towards your
re-election.
Some Nigerians have alleged that although Buhari is
the President of Nigeria, some people around him have formed a
cabal and hijacked his government. Do you share this
view?
In every possible way, any dispassionate and even passionate
watcher of events will attest to the fact that there are elements
within the administration that constitute themselves as a
government within the government; people who believe that they are
superior to others. This is not peculiar to Buhari’s
administration. If you check throughout the history of Nigeria,
every government has its own men of influence who are considered a
cabal, even at the state level. During the time of Shehu Shagari,
everyone knew the influential role of Umaru Dikko; it was very
clear. It was the same thing with Olusegun Obasanjo’s
administration; there was what they called a ‘Reform Team,’ which
gave advice on Umaru Musa Yar’Adua (to be next president) and also
adopted Goodluck Jonathan. The only time the issue of cabal became
so popular was during the time of (the late former President) Umaru
Yar’Adua. It was also popular during the time of Jonathan.
Who are those that make up the
cabal?
They are close confidants of the President; the president’s men
who exploit that confidence and truth they have with Mr. President
to manipulate the government and conduct the affairs of the
government not in the interest of the person who they are serving
but their personal interests. Those are the people who constitute a
cabal and these are the ones I tagged wolves and hyenas and
jackals.
Has the delay in the implementation of the report of
your committee justified your claim that the Presidency was using
deodorant on the rodents within the government and insecticide on
those outside it?
I made the reference when a letter was sent from the Presidency
to the National Assembly, clearing the former SGF and even blaming
us for investigating him. I said if the letter truly came from the
President, then it was very clear to us that there were double
standards in the way corruption was being fought. I think one issue
that has become a dilemma for this administration is how to resolve
the report on the former SGF. That report has become like a bone in
the throat of the President and people in the Presidency. And when
you have a bone in your throat, you have to decide whether to vomit
it or flush it in. Meanwhile, leaving it there will lead to injury
and whether you vomit, swallow or leave it there, there are
consequences. We did our report; the vice president – then as
acting president – also did his report. It is like, now, the whole
country is watching to see what the President will do about it.
This is one report that has held the Presidency by the neck. I
believe that the President knows it well that if there is one asset
he has, it is his integrity.
Do you see Lawal as one of the sacred cows and the
‘untouchables’ in Buhari’s government?
I believe it is about his contribution
to the success of this government, his place in this government and
the fact that nobody saw it coming. Put all these together: if
someone was involved in corruption and our report was enough to
remove the person’s head, they didn’t need to do another one led by
the Acting President; and to submit the report, it took months. It
is like having a knife: it is easier to slaughter an enemy who did
wrong than to slaughter a friend who committed the same offence.
What is happening is like the President has a sword, which he uses
to behead people he does not know who committed offences. Now, he
has the same sword with him to behead the person he knows, and the
whole world is watching.
What is your reaction to former president Olusegun
Obasanjo’s statement that the National Assembly is made up of
unarmed robbers?
Sometimes, it is easier for people to criticise the National
Assembly than to criticise the Presidency because if you want to
criticise the government, you are targeting Buhari, but if you are
attacking the National Assembly, you are giving relief to some
people. I know very well that Obasanjo cannot call me as an
individual that name. We have been in the same prison with him; we
wore the same handcuffs; we were jailed together with him.
Certainly, if Shehu Sani is an unarmed robber in the National
Assembly, then he is my father because we were in Kirikiri (Maximum
Prison, Lagos) together. So, he is the father of an unarmed robber.
As far as I am concerned, I believe that his problem with the
National Assembly started during his own time (as president) but
there is a different generation of members of the National Assembly
now. These are not the members that he had issues with.
Culled : Punch
The lawmaker representing Kaduna Central Senatorial
District, Senator Shehu Sani, speaks with LEKE
BAIYEWU about the cabal in the Presidency and President
Muhammadu Buhari’s challenge in implementing the report on the
suspended SGF
W ill you
describe the Minister of Women Affairs, Mrs. Aisha Al-Hassan, as
one of the ‘hyenas and leopards’ in the government for declaring
her support for former Vice President Atiku Abubakar for the 2019
presidential election?
I don’t think she is one of them. What brought her into national
discourse was the statement she inadvertently made to declare her
support for the former Vice President of Nigeria, Alhaji Atiku
Abubakar. The fact remains that it is her opinion, but many people
do not actually agree with her. The fact that she could speak out
shows that she is not a hypocrite. We must tell ourselves the
truth. When the President was sick and was in London (for medical
vacation), there were many things that happened behind him, one of
which was that many politicians that are celebrating him today and
mobilised thousands of people to the streets to welcome him were
actually not interested in his recovery when he was on his sickbed.
If we can vividly recall, the level of support he has is more
audible when he is around than when he was not.
In the Nigerian parlance, there is what we call ‘eye service.’
When the President is absent, you will see scheming; you will see
political machinations; you will see politicians and political
office holders jostling around, organising nocturnal meetings and
forming alliances and restrategising for their own political future
and for the 2019 election. It surprised many of them that he came
back because many of them thought he would not return alive. The
difference between that woman (Al-Hassan) who made the statement as
a minister and the others is that she was open and others are still
having it in their minds. I believe the President knew very well
that many things had happened behind him. If she is prepared to
work for the former vice president in the event that President
Buhari decides to contest (again), she should easily excuse herself
from this government and concentrate on what she believes in for
the 2019 election.
I don’t like the way people are insulting her; I don’t like the
way people are calling her all sorts of names. I think the
President knows very well the kind of person he appointed as
minister. She has her opinion but I may not share her opinion. I
believe that our democracy should get to a point where we should
tolerate opinions other than our own. The measure of our democratic
relevance is not about our cliques; it is about our acceptance and
conformity with democratic dictates and principles.
When a serving minister openly declares her support
for Buhari’s political rival, does that not mean a vote of no
confidence in the President?
I think she is in the best position to answer that, but from the
little knowledge I have about her, she has always been a woman of
respect and integrity. People have the right to express their
opinion but we should understand that a lot has been achieved by
this government in the areas of fighting corruption, economy and
security. We should appreciate that. There are also a number of
failures within the last two years but we are having problems with
people who do not see any good in this administration. We are also
having a problem with people who think that the administration is
100 per cent right, angelic and saintly, hence nobody should
criticise it.
This is a free and democratic society; people must be encouraged
to express their opinions. If we did not have the right to speak up
and challenge the (Goodluck Jonathan-led) government, it would have
been impossible for us to take over political power. Democratic
societies provide the platforms for individuals to use and hold the
government to account. Without the right to freedom of expression
and speech, we are going to have a society where only the wills,
wishes and dictates of the people in power become the rule. If you
have been elected into office, you have voluntarily offered
yourself to be scrutinised through public criticisms, which
democracy itself provides for.
You and the wife of the President, Mrs. Aisha
Buhari, once said when Buhari, as the Lion King, returned from his
medical vacation, he would flush out the hyenas and the leopards in
the kingdom. The President has been around for some time now. When
will he do it?
I am of the belief that there will be cabinet reshuffle and I
believe that some people will be removed from his government; some
people will be replaced and there will be some substitutions. In
the life of a government, there is the need for periodic reviews to
assess the performance of people appointed into various offices.
Those ones who have failed woefully should be dislodged from the
government; those who have performed fairly should be assessed as
to whether they should be taken to different ministries or be
shifted to another agency; those who have performed well should
simply be encouraged and remain where they are. If you don’t do
that, there is likely going to be fatigue and the atmosphere of
governance will be so suffocating.
You will see the technical failures of some appointees and it is
also an opportunity to bring in people with fresh ideas. When a new
government comes into office, what usually happens is that there is
always the burden of responsibility and compensation on the
president (or governor). That means that those who worked hard for
his victory need to be compensated. That is why names of ministers
(nominees) are collected from governors. Those who worked hard
during the campaign are being compensated with ministerial
positions. But if one has done that for a year or two, then one has
been able to appease and please those forces that helped one to get
into office.
Now, one has to settle for governance, which means bringing in
people that will deliver results purely. There are three stages in
the life of a government: the first cabinet is about compensating
people who worked for you. The second is to bring in people who
will deliver on your mission, irrespective of their political and
social allegiances. Most times, the cabinet that comes last is
usually an election cabinet; those who will work towards your
re-election.
Some Nigerians have alleged that although Buhari is
the President of Nigeria, some people around him have formed a
cabal and hijacked his government. Do you share this
view?
In every possible way, any dispassionate and even passionate
watcher of events will attest to the fact that there are elements
within the administration that constitute themselves as a
government within the government; people who believe that they are
superior to others. This is not peculiar to Buhari’s
administration. If you check throughout the history of Nigeria,
every government has its own men of influence who are considered a
cabal, even at the state level. During the time of Shehu Shagari,
everyone knew the influential role of Umaru Dikko; it was very
clear. It was the same thing with Olusegun Obasanjo’s
administration; there was what they called a ‘Reform Team,’ which
gave advice on Umaru Musa Yar’Adua (to be next president) and also
adopted Goodluck Jonathan. The only time the issue of cabal became
so popular was during the time of (the late former President) Umaru
Yar’Adua. It was also popular during the time of Jonathan.
Who are those that make up the
cabal?
They are close confidants of the President; the president’s men
who exploit that confidence and truth they have with Mr. President
to manipulate the government and conduct the affairs of the
government not in the interest of the person who they are serving
but their personal interests. Those are the people who constitute a
cabal and these are the ones I tagged wolves and hyenas and
jackals.
Has the delay in the implementation of the report of
your committee justified your claim that the Presidency was using
deodorant on the rodents within the government and insecticide on
those outside it?
I made the reference when a letter was sent from the Presidency
to the National Assembly, clearing the former SGF and even blaming
us for investigating him. I said if the letter truly came from the
President, then it was very clear to us that there were double
standards in the way corruption was being fought. I think one issue
that has become a dilemma for this administration is how to resolve
the report on the former SGF. That report has become like a bone in
the throat of the President and people in the Presidency. And when
you have a bone in your throat, you have to decide whether to vomit
it or flush it in. Meanwhile, leaving it there will lead to injury
and whether you vomit, swallow or leave it there, there are
consequences. We did our report; the vice president – then as
acting president – also did his report. It is like, now, the whole
country is watching to see what the President will do about it.
This is one report that has held the Presidency by the neck. I
believe that the President knows it well that if there is one asset
he has, it is his integrity.
Do you see Lawal as one of the sacred cows and the
‘untouchables’ in Buhari’s government?
I believe it is about his contribution
to the success of this government, his place in this government and
the fact that nobody saw it coming. Put all these together: if
someone was involved in corruption and our report was enough to
remove the person’s head, they didn’t need to do another one led by
the Acting President; and to submit the report, it took months. It
is like having a knife: it is easier to slaughter an enemy who did
wrong than to slaughter a friend who committed the same offence.
What is happening is like the President has a sword, which he uses
to behead people he does not know who committed offences. Now, he
has the same sword with him to behead the person he knows, and the
whole world is watching.
What is your reaction to former president Olusegun
Obasanjo’s statement that the National Assembly is made up of
unarmed robbers?
Sometimes, it is easier for people to criticise the National
Assembly than to criticise the Presidency because if you want to
criticise the government, you are targeting Buhari, but if you are
attacking the National Assembly, you are giving relief to some
people. I know very well that Obasanjo cannot call me as an
individual that name. We have been in the same prison with him; we
wore the same handcuffs; we were jailed together with him.
Certainly, if Shehu Sani is an unarmed robber in the National
Assembly, then he is my father because we were in Kirikiri (Maximum
Prison, Lagos) together. So, he is the father of an unarmed robber.
As far as I am concerned, I believe that his problem with the
National Assembly started during his own time (as president) but
there is a different generation of members of the National Assembly
now. These are not the members that he had issues with.
Culled : Punch
Read more https://www.nairalaw.com/babachir-lawals-case-a-bone-in-buharis-throat-shehu-sani/